thoughts on heaven...

I got into a great discussion/debate today with my New Testament professor. The subject was heaven. He said that Satan was in heaven, before God, in Job and I, holding a conviction that heaven had not been tainted looked up the Scripture in my NIV. Chapter 1:6-7: "One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. The Lord said to Satan, 'Where have you come from?'" The text does not say that Satan was in heaven, only that he went "before the Lord." I argued, "Can't we go before the Lord here on earth? Can't we come into his presence without being in heaven? In fact, isn't it true that in Exodus 33 God says that no one may see his glory and live?" He argued that Lucifer (Satan) had once been in heaven, before he fell, and that maybe because he had seen God once it didn't matter after that. And then I said, "But I have always believed firmly that God must be separate, he's the holiest of holies, the purest of pure. He cannot be in the presence of evil as it would contradict his very nature." And with that my professor professed that he had somewhere he needed to be and that I was late for "Story at Noon." I was on the verge of tears because my faith had been challenged in a way that I had never thought possible. I held firmly, all my life, to this belief that God has to remain separate in order to remain fully and Holy God. I mean, isn't that why he sent Jesus, the human part of the Triune God, to die on the cross for us so that we could again be with him like we were before the fall of man? I believe God would have done it himself if he was able.

After lunch a few of us were sitting around talking about this with one of the other faculty. After more discussion we decided to head to the library to compare commentaries on Job. The one I looked at didn't mention heaven at all. A couple others did. And one of them made the claim that perhaps that part of Job wasn't to be taken literally at all and that it was just there to describe for us God's nature and to discuss the issue of good (God) vs. evil and that good (God) always prevails. We decided to reconvene next Wednesday after lunch and discuss it more in depth after all gathering research on the subject.

Then we began a discussion on "Where is heaven anyway?" Someone brought up that we always assume that heaven is "up there somewhere the other side of space" but that space is supposedly infinite. "But," I said, "how can space be infinite if God is infinite and boundaryless? Could he have created something outside himself that is also infinite and boundaryless? Isn't everything outside God himself and the Triune, considered to be evil? And if so how could God and space both coexist in the same space and have God still remain pure and separate?" This seemed to make everyones' brains immediately cramp up and blank stares came at me from every direction. We talked about Revelation and how it says that in the last days earth, as we know it presently, will be destroyed and God will create a new heaven on earth.

I then brought up our loved ones that have already passed on. We always say, "My mom's up there in heaven looking down on me and watching me," or "He's in a better place," or something like that. We just assume that once they die they go to heaven to be with the Lord. But Sripture says that there will be one Judgment Day when God will judge us all together and separate the wheat from the chaff. So considering that we are to assume that my mom, and my grandparents and all the others who have passed on, are in a different state of sleep right now. They are not conscious of time, they are outside of it, like God. The Bible says that when one dies the next time they are conscious they will be in God's glory. I have always taken this to mean that the next time they are conscious is as they take their last breath; they go through this tunnel towards this bright light and into God's presence. Assuming that though there isn't just one Judgment Day like Scripture says. How would that work? Would they go to heaven and be with God and then when Judgment Day arrives come back to earth to be taken with the rest of us? And what about those who die that are not Christians? Are they already in hell? According to Scriptures they aren't because they have not yet been judged.

"Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17. They are waiting for the coming of the Lord but it will be like the blink of an eye for them. It will seem like no time has passed at all from when they passed away to that moment when he returns. So, we will all stand before God together, Adam, Moses, Abraham and Isaac, King David, all the believers down through the ages to us. Isn't that cool?

I am anxious to hear what any of you might think about this subject. Any feedback or thoughts on any of this? Would love to hear from you.